Posts by Marvin Shilmer

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Marvin Shilmer

For comparison, here is a question with very similar construction qualities

Let's take a look.

The comparable question you offer is this:

Because science is by definition a "theory"--not testable, observable, nor repeatable. Why do you object to creationism or intelligent design being taught in school?

That question is answerable.

I'd answer it this way: First, science is not a theory. Science is a method. Second, I only object to creationism and/or intelligent design being taught in public schools in the United States because public schools in the United States are funded by a government (or governments) having a tenet that no religious test will be required as a qualification to any public trust, which to me means teaching religious concepts as valid is illegal. Also, and not to get tedious, "intelligent design" is a religious construct insofar as I'm concerned.

Viviane,

If, as you claim, the question you posed is comparable to the one I asked you then the question I asked you is answerable.

36

Calling all lovers of Jehovahs and His Christ

by vinman in

i must say that i have always loved jehovah and his son jesus christ.

i have a 12 inch diameter telescope.

i would go outside and listen to the psalms that praised to my god.

Marvin Shilmer

Why would God crash two galaxies together?

The first answer that comes to my mind is: to get the result of crashing two galaxies.

What from one perspective is understandably a "crash" can also understandably be seen as a "productive exercise" from another perspective. Bringing elements together to make a cell comes to mind as an example of such a thing. We end up with destruction of matter to change that matter into transferable energy. If, from the micro perspective, you happened to live on one of those small molecular structures facing destruction you'd have one view. If, from a macro perspective, you happened to have car in need of starting you'd have a wholly different view.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Marvin Shilmer

You're free to mistakenly think your question makes sense, that I am avoiding it for whatever reason and to display a complete lack of curiosity on why the question is deficient.

Viviane,

You keep asserting things like the question is stupid and it's poorly worded and it presents a false dichotomy and that it makes no sense. These are your assertions; not mine.

Your assertions are yours to prove true, not mine to be curious about or mine to disprove. If you want to demonstrate why the question I've asked is unanswerable then do so and be done with it. But in the face of a question all you do is keep making assertions as though that matters. Until you prove your assertions true all they are is personal opinion. I'm glad you have them. I'm glad you feel free to share them. So what? I don't care what you hold as personal opinions. I care what you can prove.

Right now what I see is an answerable question and, in you, someone for reasons unknown just does not want to answer that answerable question.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Marvin Shilmer

As I said, rephrase it so it makes sense and I am happy to answer. The offer for help is on the table. No one is stopping you from accepting but you.

I'm happy with the question the way it is, and it is answerable as it is. You apparently just do not want to answer it for what it asks. And, no I really don't need you to re-frame the question I want you answer. I've asked the question I want to ask. I've not asked the question you want me to ask.

BTW, some minor points ... if you don't need to keep repeating the question, why did you? Also, why are you presenting a (poorly worded) false dichotomy? Why are you trying to limit any possible response (once you reframe the question so it makes sense) to just the options you are presenting?

I restated the question for sake of any readers who might want to know what I was speaking of without wandering through the thread of responses.

If you think my question presents a false dichotomy then say so and prove your assertion. I'm happy to engage that.

I'm also not trying to limit any possible response. How you choose to answer the question asked is up to you, up to and including a non-answer, which is what you've done until now. But, honestly, I see no possibility of a false dichotomy in the question of whether you hold a position that a Miss White USA pageant is a fine thing. Either you do or you don't. I don't really care which position you hold. I'm just wondering which position you hold and, hopefully, once you say, why you hold that position.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Marvin Shilmer

By the way, inserting the word commerce makes the argument too specious. That alone sounds like big brother's poorly supported excuse to tear down the fundamental right of freedom of religion.

I'm not sure I completely follow what you're trying to say but, as I said earlier, when a person or corporation purchases a state or local business license that individual or corporation is obligated to conduct that business as laws of that state require. The license is there to purchase. But the issuing authority is what governs and otherwise assigns conditions to the lawful use and keeping of that license. Hence my use of "commerce". I've also used this term because insofar as I can tell the discussion is about what licensed businesses can do.

274

Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon in

sickening to see the photo of the religious zealots all stood around the governor signing into law the right for people to discriminate against others (gay, lesbian, trans-gender) based purely on religious dogma.. if religious people want those freedoms then the can't have it both ways - they cannot complain if *they* are discriminated against.. "sorry, we don't like zionists, get out".

"oh, it's some special mass and you can't work your shift?

you're fired!"..

Marvin Shilmer

...I HAVE answered you.

No. You haven't. You've concocted an excuse to avoid answering the question asked.

- Either you hold a position that a Miss White USA pageant is a fine thing, or you do not. You never say.

- Either you hold a position that courts should assert punitive measures to cause the sort of discrimination demonstrated in a Miss White USA pageant to cease, or you do not. You never say.

So, what is your position on a Miss White USA pageant? Is this a fine thing or should courts assert punitive measures to cause such discrimination based on race to cease?

36

Calling all lovers of Jehovahs and His Christ

by vinman in

i must say that i have always loved jehovah and his son jesus christ.

i have a 12 inch diameter telescope.

i would go outside and listen to the psalms that praised to my god.

Marvin Shilmer

Any slight change in physics and we would not be.

I agree. But something would be, it just wouldn't be us.

Things that exist do so based on what the physics around them provide to exist. The fact that we exist means only that the physics of our universe provide for us to exist. But this also means that forms of life that could exist with a different set of physics are not able to exist in our universe. How does this tell us that god exists?

43

Atheism

by Jonathan Drake in

jw
friends

recent events and book reads (one suggested by cofty i believe- thank you) have lead me to the only logical and acceptable conclusion:.

there is no god.. simple logical reasoning: matter can neither me created or destroyed.

so the amount of mass in the universe is constant.

Marvin Shilmer

It's a lot easier however, to debunk the existence of the God of the Jewish people or of the Christian, or for that matter the existence of any personal God who gives a rip about little humans. Debunking him is a piece of cake, that is, for the open and curious mind. Not so for the people with the "faith" gene.
I'd hesitate to characterize it as easy to debunk the existence of a personal god who gives a rip about little humans. Lots of careful definitions would have to be established, like what it means for god to "give a rip" and what exactly is a "personal god".

When I look at the world around me I see things like bacteria that likely have no idea I exist as a person interested in them. But I exist. Those puny little bacteria are just too ignorant about the world they live in to comprehend something like me, or at least that's my assumption for sake of this little piece of writing. Take, for instance, those little microbes living in my gut. If they were able to see the edge of the universe they live in they'd likely have no idea that edge was the inside of my gut, or that what I did from day to day so much affected them. I'm sure I've initiated a few microbial genocides in my life, at least that what it seems like when I overdo antibiotics. Does that make me a god in relation to those microbial critters? Those little microbes likely have no clue of my existence, or that I care about whether they're healthy.

36

Calling all lovers of Jehovahs and His Christ

by vinman in

i must say that i have always loved jehovah and his son jesus christ.

i have a 12 inch diameter telescope.

i would go outside and listen to the psalms that praised to my god.

Marvin Shilmer

I have many astronomy and cosmology books that tell me that God does exist.

What in these books tells you that god exists?

43

Atheism

by Jonathan Drake in

jw
friends

recent events and book reads (one suggested by cofty i believe- thank you) have lead me to the only logical and acceptable conclusion:.

there is no god.. simple logical reasoning: matter can neither me created or destroyed.

so the amount of mass in the universe is constant.

Marvin Shilmer

Specify any god that is worshipped today, or ever has been worshipped, and we can prove beyond all reasonable doubt that it does not exist.

From a strictly logical perspective, and if we assume what you write above is true (and I'm not suggesting otherwise), it does not amount to evidence there is no god.

For all we know our known universe is a speck of infection under the fingernail of some god.